TOWN OF BALLSTON

PLANNING BOARD

June 4, 2007

PRESENT: Jeffrey Cwalinski, Vice-Chairman

Joan Eddy

John Van Vorst

Derek Hayden

Kathryn Cyr, Town Engineer

Thomas Johnson, Building Inspector

Members of the General Public

(Meeting called to order at 7:30 p.m.)

(Pledge of Allegiance recited)

MR. CWALINSKI: Welcome to the June 4th Town

of Ballston Planning Board meeting. Tonight

under old business, one item, New York

Development Group and Stonebridge. Under new

business, New York Development Group and

Cornerstone and Christ Savior Church on East Line

Road. And with that, we're going to rearrange

the agenda a little bit and call the Christ

Savior Church up first.

MR. BIANCHINE: Joe Bianchine, we represent

Christ Savior Church.

They own about seven and a half acres of land

on East Line Road, and you may have seen this or

remember this, it was about a year and a half ago

or so when they presented their concept plan and

also at that time got approval to build a

pavilion, which has been built in the back here.

Now they want to proceed with the rest of their

plan to build the church. It's a little over

7,500 square foot church that will set basically

in the middle of the site, sitting back from East

Line Road approximately 160 feet and roughly in

line with the existing family house to the north

at this location.

They'd like to have two curb cuts, one,

one-way in on the south side and then there is a

canopy here so the people could be dropped off at

the entrance of the church. The entrance to face

the back side here. See the nice facade on the

front. The main entrance back here, then one-way

out here and circulates around for parking in the

back of the church, so, basically hidden from the

roadway, and it will be parking for 52 spaces at

the present time.

The site has utilities now. Thank you.

There's water along the front and there is a

sewer line on the other side of the street. So,

they're tied in to both water and sewer and then

we'd be grading the site. It's mostly open

fields with trees. And the site grades generally

towards the back and we'll grade it so there

would be some storm water retention.

These plans are a little different from what

you've seen. We revised them from a couple weeks

ago. So, these plans are a little different and

we'll be coming back in with the final plans.

There are some renderings here of which the

church would look like. This is on the back

side. One-story building, siding, vinyl siding.

This would be looking at this side over in here.

That's this side over through here and only thing

that's missing on this is we'd like to have three

spires on the church, which would be two on the

front corners and one over the main entrance.

MR. CWALINSKI: Spire is the steeple?

MR. BIANCHINE: The steeple, yup. We will

have some site lighting, also, and have some site

lighting in the back parking lot and a couple at

the entrance to light up the entrance and then

probably a monument sign along East Line Road.

MR. CWALINSKI: What is that (indicating on

map)?

MR. BIANCHINE: That's the existing

pavilion.

MR. CWALINSKI: So, that's going to stay, and

one entrance in and one out.

MR. BIANCHINE: Correct.

MR. CWALINSKI: The steeples, Tom, are there

height restrictions? I seem to remember forty

feet.

MR. JOHNSON: Yeah, forty feet. And how high

is the steeple?

MR. BIANCHINE: Don't know yet. They'll be

less than 40 feet.

MR. CWALINSKI: You're going to need the

Right to Farm Law on here.

MR. BIANCHINE: As a standard note.

MR. CWALINSKI: Right. I've got some

questions on the controverse there. If you could

just explain them to me. Here I see 299.8.

MR. BIANCHINE: These are proposed.

Everything's going to be basically grading this

way.

MR. CWALINSKI: So everything flows down.

MR. BIANCHINE: Yes. We'll move this, bring

it back and have a ditch and swell going that

way. There will be final grading plans as we get

into the final plans.

MR. CWALINSKI: All right.

MR. HAYDEN: Where's this church now? Is it

somewhere else?

REVEREND: West Milton.

MR. HAYDEN: How many members of the church?

REVEREND: We have approximately 55 families.

MR. HAYDEN: And will someone be living here

at the church?

REVEREND: No. There is hope of possibly a

future rectory, but that's all.

MR. VAN VORST: What is the reason for the

church being set back so far from the road?

MR. BIANCHINE: Just aesthetics, the way it

was, trying to keep in character with the

existing house that's there.

MR. VAN VORST: If the church was to grow in

membership, is there a phase two building plan?

MR. BIANCHINE: Not at this time. I mean,

there's plans -- the building will be set up so

it could be extended, but there is no plan at

this time that they would need that.

MR. VAN VORST: I see.

MR. HAYDEN: What is the reason for having

the entrance face the rear of the property?

REVEREND: Our church, the alter must always

face east, so, towards East Line Road. That is

east. So the entrance is coming to the other the

side.

I should also mention, we have a general rule

within our Archdiocese that no parish exceed 200

members. If we do, we form another parish. We

don't believe in big churches; we don't believe

in the large expenses, upkeep and the like. As

it was said many years ago, we keep it fairly

efficient and also family-oriented and size is

very important for that.

MR. HAYDEN: When you say members, you mean

people or families?

REVEREND: People.

MR. CWALINSKI: I guess I didn't count your

parking places, but the only thing is, we have a

requirement for one parking place for three and a

half --

MR. HAYDEN: I count 75.

MR. BIANCHINE: Obviously, you can see we

have plenty of room to abide by the parking.

We'll meet that.

MR. CWALINSKI: Since this is a sketch plan

conference, there is no public comment at this

meeting. I don't have anything more to say.

MR. HAYDEN: How do you propose to keep the

entrance and exit one way; just signage?

MR. BIANCHINE: Signage.

MR. CWALINSKI: Joan, anything?

MS. EDDY: No.

Kathryn?

MS. CYR: No.

MR. JOHNSON: This will be a site plan review

on special use permit for the church. When they

do apply for site plan review, special use has

been required, as well.

MR. CWALINSKI: Well, we all spoke and have

nothing else to say. So, you're done.

MR. BIANCHINE: Okay. Thank you very much.

MR. CWALINSKI: Thank you.

Go ahead.

MR. LANSING: Good evening. My name is Scott

Lansing of Lansing Engineering. I'm also here

with Geoff Booth and Jeff Knox for the

Stonebridge mixed use residential units.

Brief history on the project. The project is

a planned unit development district. We have

been in front of the Town Board for the project.

I believe we received a positive reception at the

Town Board and they referred it to the Planning

Board. We presented it to the Planning Board and

I feel we received a positive reception as well

from the Planning Board.

Overall, it's a traditional neighborhood

design. North is to the top of the page. 74.1

acres Ballston Lake residential. Post

conditions, we are proposing to meet the

standards for the Ballston Lake residential zone.

There are more than 100 units. Approximately

63.64 acres for buildable unrestricted land on

the parcel; six units per acre for single-family

residential or 12 units per acre for multi-family

residential. Gives us a range of about 382

units, and there are 764 units that are permitted

on this parcel. We're proposing 226 units on an

overall 74 acres. This is slightly down from, I

believe, the last time. I believe last time it

was 242 units. And these units are proposed on

44 acres.

What we are proposing are single-family

residential in this area targeted towards young

professionals, families, empty-nesters, seniors,

and this approximately 15.57 acres in this area,

we're also proposing townhomes, which would be

three units, tri-plex units. We do have one

duplex unit in this area. Those are also

targeted towards young professionals,

empty-nesters and seniors. And that is located

on approximately 11.27 acres.

We're proposing 14 buildings or 41 units

overall on the tri-plex, and 59 units on the

single-family residential.

Condominium units, we are proposing a mix of

four and six unit buildings. That's slightly

different than the last time it was presented to

the Board. Last time it was presented as all

eight-unit buildings. We are proposing a mix of

those condominium buildings. These are targeted

toward young professionals, empty-nesters and

seniors, and it's proposed on about 12.65 acres

of the parcel. In that area, we're proposing 26

buildings. Again, a mix of four- and six-unit

buildings; 126 units overall.

Also part of the project proposing a

neighborhood business area in the central portion

of the project. At this time, we're estimating

about 16,000 square feet of space in that area

with associated parking. For the project we're

proposing about 9,200 linear feet of roadway that

would be built to town standards and would be

offered to the town for dedication. Public sewer

would be via the Saratoga County Sewer District.

We would propose to build gravity to a low point

on the site. There would be a pump station in

that area, would pump back up and through and go

down eventually to Saratoga County Sewer District

trunk line. That has been designed in accordance

with Ballston Lake Sewer Study, as well.

Public water for the project will be extended

from the adjacent Chapel Hill project.

Storm water will be managed on site, with the

storm water management locations.

The whole project was to try to obviously

meet the standards and I feel we've done that by

preserving vegetation along the roadway, and we

preserved vegetation between the individual uses

and to the adjoining property owner, as well.

The project does include a streetscape which

does include sidewalks on both sides of the

roadway, street trees on both sides of the

roadway, and also street lights on both sides of

the roadway.

Open space on the parcel, we're proposing

30.12 acres, or 41 percent for the overall

parcel, which is above and beyond the

requirements. We are proposing active and

passive open space areas. We would have passive

open space in this area (indicating on map). We

are proposing an area for an active open space

area for town parkland dedication and the

applicants are proposing to contribute 100,000

dollars to the Town of Ballston for the

assistance of securing federal and state matching

of funds, grant funds.

Again, overall, we feel the project is in

accordance with the TND purpose, and look to work

with the Board as we advance forward with the

project.

We're here tonight for questions and comments

from the Board. Since the last time, we did

submit and have made the minor changes that I did

review on the plan and we've also submitted a

model ordinance for the project.

In addition to that, we have received some

comments from C.T. Male. If I could, I'd like to

just quickly go through those. The first one was

relative to showing a utility plan for the

parcel. That is something we can do, and we'll

submit it to the Town for their review.

There was a concern regarding water pressure

to service the project. We are confident there

is adequate water pressure to service the

project.

Another was relative to construction phasing.

We will identify construction phasing for the

project, probably more down the road in the

preliminary design phase for the project. We are

anticipating two to four phases for the project.

And the last was relative to traffic impact

study. We have prepared a traffic impact study

and will submit that to the Town Board for their

review.

We feel the plan is relatively unchanged

since the last meeting we had with the Board, and

we're here tonight primarily to review the

ordinances and take comments on that. Thank you

very much.

MR. CWALINSKI: All right. My first question

is, what's the difference between townhouse and

condominium?

MR. LANSING: Townhouse would be individual

ownership of land and the multiple stories would

be, there would be the ground floor and second

floor. There would be a zero lot line through

the structures and property associated with the

actual unit.

And the condominium type, you would own the

actual walls. So you could own the second floor

of a building, but you'd be joint owners of the

land around as part of the Homeowners'

Association.

MR. CWALINSKI: Okay. So, Homeowners'

Association would take care of the land for the

condominium.

MR. LANSING: Right.

MR. CWALINSKI: One would not be required for

a townhouse.

MR. LANSING: I believe the thought is a

maintenance agreement or --

MR. BOOTH: We're looking to do HOA, not a

condo association, but an HOA for maintenance of

the townhouse area.

MR. CWALINSKI: Does that include the gazebo

in there, also?

MR. BOOTH: No. The gazebo's separate and

that would be part of the land that gets

dedicated to the town.

MR. CWALINSKI: So, the town would take care

of that.

Storm water management areas, if I remember,

didn't we require fencing around that on some of

these projects?

MR. VAN VORST: And an access.

MR. CWALINSKI: And an access. So, I guess,

how would the town access them?

MR. LANSING: Bottom left. This would have

to provide a split between the condominium units.

MR. CWALINSKI: And is that one from Lake

Road?

MR. LANSING: This one, I would imagine,

would have an access from Lake Road and this

would be from an internal road.

MR. CWALINSKI: Okay. Good. Now, what makes

you confident there is sufficient water pressure?

MR. LANSING: We have performed water

pressure tests on the East Line Farms project and

it's in excess of 2,000 gallons.

MR. CWALINSKI: Does that satisfy the comment

made by Kathryn on April 17th and May 24 which

asks for information on available water pressure

and fire flows. Hydraulic modeling performed for

the Burnt Hills Ballston Lake Water District

Number 2 indicates low available fire flows in

the region of this project. It is recommended

that the applicant perform fire flow tests at a

location in the recently constructed Chapel Hill

subdivision.

MR. LANSING: That is where those tests were

performed. Right now, Chapel Hill, there are two

dead ends and we performed tests on each one, and

I believe static pressure was about 75 PSI,

residual was about 57 PSI and available fire flow

was 20 PSI.

MS. EDDY: Any particular reason why there

isn't a copy of that?

MR. LANSING: We have that data.

MS. EDDY: Pass it along.

MR. CWALINSKI: Kathryn would like that data.

MS. EDDY: And you have the traffic study?

MR. LANSING: We're in the process of

completing that.

MR. CWALINSKI: I believe someone also asked

me for the impact on the school district, also.

MR. BOOTH: We're working on that.

MR. HAYDEN: That was Ballston Spa, right, if

I remember correctly?

MR. KNOX: This is Ballston Spa.

MR. CWALINSKI: Anything else?

You're going to have a hydrant at the end

of --

(Indicated on map by Mr. Lansing)

MR. CWALINSKI: And it won't be necessary to

run a water line down to Outlet Road, is that

what your study's showing?

MR. LANSING: I don't see a need to run the

water line down.

MR. CWALINSKI: All right. I've got nothing

more. Joan has nothing more. Derek, John,

Kathryn, Tom?

MR. BOOTH: Could we go through the model

ordinance and any issues that you have, questions

that you have, suggestions that you have, things

you like, things you don't like? Would it be

possible to do that, as well? The plan, in light

of the modifications, really the reason we're

here is to kind of go through this and get some

feedback from the Board about things they like,

don't like.

MR. CWALINSKI: All right. Go ahead. You

want to talk about it?

MR. BOOTH: We like it the way it is, but if

you have comments on it...

MR. CWALINSKI: I don't have any comments on

it.

MR. BOOTH: It looks pretty good to you?

I'll be honest with you. We utilized the model

ordinance from Beacon Hill because we went

through great pains with the Town Board and

Planning Board several years ago in that process.

So, we used a lot of the same language. It was

tweaked to apply to this particular project and

we separated it into two sections, basically an A

and a B; A for residential and B for commercial

or mixed use flex space.

MR. JOHNSON: I have a question on the street

trees. You're looking for one every 50 feet;

that came out of the Beacon Hill ordinance,

correct?

MR. BOOTH: No. That actually came from the

comp plan. It said one every 50 feet, not

necessarily spaced exactly 50. It could be three

spaced over here and a 150 foot span, and that

came out of the comp plan. That was the

requirement, I believe, for the one every 50.

And that is going in the area between the

sidewalks and edge of pavement as you go down the

streets.

MR. CWALINSKI: I have no comments.

MR. HAYDEN: Shouldn't Peter be discussing

that more?

MR. CWALINSKI: Peter will definitely have to

give his input on this. This will have to go

through the same process as any town legislation

goes through, public comment, Town Board level,

Town Board review and attorney review, also.

MR. BOOTH: One of the things we'd like to

talk about, if possible, are the uses in the

mixed use flex space and see if those uses, it's

not the cover page, the third page, just above

section six you'll see some of the neighborhood

allowable uses. Starts out at the top of the

page, neighbor business live work flex space. It

says will allow buildings to be designed such as

space to be used to allow neighborhood business

and/or residential rental space. This would

encourage business owners to utilize the first

floor of the building for an allowed business and

then live in or rent the above floors. And then

we list some of the available uses that would be

allowed in that area. We've got professional

offices, such as attorney, medical, general

office, daycare facilities, which we thought

might be an interesting use for people who live

in this development and also the adjacent Chapel

Hill development, to have daycare right in the

area. They can pick up their kids, bring them

home or drop them off. Also, we thought about

possibly some type of a non-fast food restaurant,

a sit down restaurant, maybe pizza or possibly an

Italian place, something where you get the

neighborhood going, lunch or dinner, but

something that really serves the residents in

both this project and the adjacent project.

We talk about residential living, and I just

want to fine-tune a little what Scott said

earlier. He talked about 16,000 square feet and

we have 16,000 square foot footprint for those

two buildings. The idea was that the first floor

would be utilized for some of the neighborhood

flex businesses and the second floor, or possibly

second or third floor utilized for residential

living. And that was the idea. That's not

something that we have plans or we intend to

build right away, but may it's something we can

come back to the Town for a site plan at some

point down the road on. But it is important to

plan for that. And that, again, was one of the

uses that was specified in the comp plan for the

Traditional Neighborhood Design.

We also put in convenience store; not a gas

station, but something where you come home, grab

a newspaper, bread, milk. Nothing too large, but

something, again, that can be used for folks just

in this area on a scale that would actually match

the amount of both residents in both of these

projects.

So, we are looking for a little feedback on

those uses; are they good, are they not good, are

there other uses you might like to see?

MR. CWALINSKI: Well, let me give you some

feedback on the restaurant one. What I don't

want to see is a restaurant and then they come and

get a liquor license and they start serving

alcohol, because drinking and driving isn't the

right thing to do in this neighborhood. I also

don't want to see a restaurant in there and then

having entertain, because nothing irritates me

more than noise pollution, which I think would be

wrong for this neighborhood, also. You'll have

some families. Children and infants need more

sleep than adults. That's my opinion.

MR. BOOTH: Who knows what would happen down

the road, but would like acoustic entertainment

type of thing kept inside, would that work? Not

bands, you don't want bands. I get that.

MR. CWALINSKI: It all depends how much noise

leaks outside. I can't say yes or no without

someone going through and doing some kind of

analysis. Okay, we've got a person inside

generating this much noise, we have this much

insulation, we expect this much attenuation, and

the noise is negligible. I don't have numbers to

give you. I wish I did.

MR. BOOTH: So, maybe we'll put something

together, something that says not bands, maybe

some acoustic duo or trio, but with a DB limit,

something along those lines?

MR. CWALINSKI: We've got a 50 DB limit at

the property line now, which, in my opinion,

works.

MR. BOOTH: Okay. And we understand that

it's meant to be for the residents of this

neighborhood, a family place, not to have rock 'n

roll bands. That's certainly not the intent.

No liquor. Are we saying no beer and wine,

or no liquor at all?

MR. CWALINSKI: How do other people feel?

MR. HAYDEN: I'm more comfortable with

businesses like daycare centers and office space.

They're more compatible with the -- the hours are

-- they're open when people aren't normally home,

probably. They're not open on the weekends,

they're not open at night.

MR. BOOTH: There could be an hourly limit,

10 o'clock at night.

MR. HAYDEN: I'm not crazy about restaurants

and convenience stores right in the middle of

this thing.

MR. CWALINSKI: When I think of convenience

store, Bonfare comes to mind.

MR. BOOTH: We aren't looking for something

like that. More of a neighborhood country store,

like a Jonesville Market, along those lines,

where they serve sandwiches.

MR. CWALINSKI: Like the Ma and Pa stores of

the sixties.

MR. BOOTH: Exactly. A front porch, you got

a couple of rocking chairs, something that would

really be for the neighbors. This is not going

to be utilized -- people are not going to go here

like the Stewarts down on 67. There's not going

to be gas. It's not going to be large. It's

going to be a neighborhood scale type convenience

store, but again, that's why we're doing this.

MR. CWALINSKI: I do have a problem with

serving alcohol in a neighborhood as closed as

this.

MR. BOOTH: So, no alcohol?

MR. CWALINSKI: That would be my preference.

I don't know how everybody else feels.

MR. HAYDEN: I agree.

MS. EDDY: I don't think wine is a huge

problem. I think a lot of this is going to be

determined on how much parking there is, Geoff,

as far as people coming from the outside. I

think this is a walking to go get a glass of wine

and a fancy sandwich. Cheers; we're looking at

Cheers.

MR. CWALINSKI: Okay. I guess I can agree

with that.

MS. EDDY: And I don't think this is going to

be a 21-year-old hangout, either. I think this

is going to be upscale stuff, just based on the

cost.

MR. CWALINSKI: Okay. I can live with that.

MR. BOOTH: So, beer and wine, but no liquor;

is that fair?

MR. CWALINSKI: That's fair.

MR. VAN VORST: If it was me, I'd have

prohibition in the whole town.

MR. BOOTH: So, I shouldn't ask you.

MR. VAN VORST: You can ask me, and I'll give

you my opinion.

MR. BOOTH: All right. So, we agree to say

just beer and wine.

MR. JOHNSON: How does that work with the

state liquor authority? How do you tell somebody

they can have one type of liquor and not another?

MS. EDDY: It's the license they get.

MR. BOOTH: It's the license. There's two

different types of licenses, one for beer and

wine and another one for hard liquor, and the

requirements for insurance and other things are

much more stringent, where you get your money

from for liquor -- they're much more stringent

for the license for liquor.

So, we would be okay with something like a

neighborhood-style sit-down pizza, Italian, ice

cream, type of thing. We agree with that?

MR. CWALINSKI: Yes.

MS. EDDY: Like Scotti's on upper Union

Street.

MR. BOOTH: What about some sort of a

neighborhood gym, workout facility, something

like a Curves for women, or just some kind of a

local -- if somebody wanted to do it?

MR. CWALINSKI: That would be fine.

MR. KNOX: That's something we'd like to add.

MR. CWALINSKI: I really like the daycare. I

think that's a great idea.

MR. BOOTH: I think so, too.

MR. KNOX: How about like a banquet facility,

a meeting area? They have the condos, they want

to have a party, something like that, rent that

space. I think that could be a good use. You

have to forgive me. I've read through this, but

now I'm thinking through it, but if you're okay

with that, I'd like to add that.

MR. CWALINSKI: I don't see a problem with

that.

MS. EDDY: Only for inhabitants of the area.

MR. CWALINSKI: Right. Not for general

public.

MR. BOOTH: A meeting area just for the

residents of the development.

MR. CWALINSKI: Would maintenance, would that

come under the Homeowners' Association?

MR. BOOTH: I think they would end up taking

over that, whether they rent that space from the

owner of the property.

Something else we talked about doing, this

was actually suggested to me and I think Jeff,

also, and I'm not sure where we'd do it on the

project, but community garden, where people could

go and plant flowers. I don't know that

vegetables work, because you plant tomatoes and

somebody else eats them, you might not be real

happy, but flowers and things of that nature,

might be a nice way for the community to interact

with each other. I'm not sure where we could put

it, but it was an idea put out there by some

folks. I'd like some feedback.

MR. CWALINSKI: That's fine.

Joan, what about a dog park?

MS. EDDY: Well, you know where I am on that.

MR. BOOTH: What else?

MR. CWALINSKI: Dog park?

MR. BOOTH: You know, we talked about a dog

park and there are good points and there are bad

points. I'm not going to talk about it because

I've never really gone, but Jeff's just gone.

MR. KNOX: I have three dogs. I love dogs,

and we've been to the dog parks, and it gets a

little -- Joan, I'm sure you've been to the dog

parks and sometimes it gets a little aggressive.

You have all kinds of dogs coming to the park and

you don't know what you're going to get. There

was a time my Irish Setter was eyeball to eyeball

with a Pitbull. Nothing ended up happening, but

it was a little unsettling. Those are the kinds

of things I remember, so --

MS. EDDY: Well, you were unsettled,

obviously the dog was not.

I just think that if you're going to allow

people to have dogs, it's a community thing. Dog

people are community oriented, and it's one place

to leave stuff as opposed to all over the place.

You're going to have dog fights anywhere dogs

decide they want to fight. It's the people.

It's like a car, it's the idiot behind the wheel,

it's not the car's fault. So, a lot of that gets

worked out on its own. I have no idea what the

liability is to you all, and that's something

you'll have to work out on your own.

MR. BOOTH: Well, I think we can probably

keep it included in the ordinance. Whether it

happens or not is another story, but it's

certainly better to have it in there.

We also talked about possibly some sort of

community Christmas tree, or holiday tree, as

some people might call it. We had talked about

being able to do that somewhere within the

project, as well.

MR. CWALINSKI: That's a good idea.

MR. BOOTH: Something where the community

comes out to decorate it, light it. We are

looking to really foster that sense of community

within the project. We have sidewalks, street

lights, and I think that that's really the main

goal here is to try and foster that sense of

community, and I think these types of uses we're

talking about certainly can help foster that.

MR. CWALINSKI: I agree.

MR. BOOTH: One of the other things we wanted

to talk about was some of the uses for the

elevations for the fronts, and these are some of

the buildings that we picked out that we liked.

You'll see that everything has some sort of front

porch. Some are smaller than others, some are

larger than others. But you can see that

everything has kind of a little porch area in the

front. In the ordinance, we put in two garage

doors as opposed to -- and you'll see some on the

plans because that was how it was originally

rendered. This has a single garage door. What

we're really looking to do is do something like

this with two garage doors for each.

MR. CWALINSKI: So, wherever I see one

garage door, I should envision two.

MR. BOOTH: I think it breaks up that big,

long piece of white aluminum or painted metal,

whatever it is, and one of the things that we've

been doing with a lot of projects now is, we've

been doing kind of an arch over it, what we call

a Williamsburg trim. So, it kind of gives a

nice, soft effect to the garage. It breaks it up

and allows it to blend in with the house a little

bit more.

One of the other things that we've done is,

all of these designs, is, we kept the garages

close to the front of the house. In other words,

here's the porch, the garage is about five feet

beyond the edge of the mass. What we don't want

to do is have examples where the garages are

fifteen feet in front of the house. We put

together an example, and I just want to pass

these out and let you take a look at them. What

you'll notice as you look from one to two to

three, is that on number one, there is probably

18 feet from the front of the garage back to the

edge of the porch. Number two, that's probably

ten or eleven feet back and number three is

basically what we're looking at here. This being

the max, somewhere around five or six feet.

We're not looking for the garages on the

single-family homes to really extend a long ways

out.

MS. EDDY: None of these lots are going to be

able to take a side load, now?

MR. BOOTH: It wouldn't, but we have another

one I'm going to pass out. We looked at the

traditional side loads where you come along the

right side of the house or left side of the house

wouldn't work, but one of the ones we looked at,

we liked the flexibility of the house to

incorporate something where you use the side load

where it comes in from the front and it allows

you to still keep the smaller lots, but have that

garage kind of off to the side.

MS. EDDY: Geoff, when we went through this

the last time with Beacon Hill, you brought us

lovely renderings and none of the houses look

like that now. Are these houses that you're

really seriously doing, or are these just --

MR. BOOTH: These are, and these houses all

fit on the footprint of the house. We're looking

at plans that are somewhere in the 1,500 to

2,700, 2,800 square foot range. I think we have

one that was close to 29. You're right, Joan,

that the renderings are beautiful, because their

shown with landscaping --

MS. EDDY: Well, look at all these peaks. We

got a boatload of peaks. We got all kinds of

things that go cha-ching, cha-ching, cha-ching.

I just -- this is a lot of money. I mean, what's

your base house talking about? All of these have

peaks. Look at all these roof lines. A lot of

fluff, for lack of another word. All these stone

fronts. Where are we starting?

MR. BOOTH: I think that the stone or brick

are going to be options on the houses. Certainly

the houses are not necessarily going to have them

on it. These are showing certain options.

You've got edge, you've got brick here, here and

here.

MS. EDDY: Are we doing vinyl?

MR. BOOTH: We are doing, possibly, vinyl or

stone or brick. It would be an option.

MS. EDDY: No cedar, it's all going to be --

MR. BOOTH: Could be, but I'd say more than

likely not.

MS. EDDY: They're beautiful.

MR. BOOTH: Also, the renderings we put on

here, these came from designed basics and they're

called "neighborhood in a box", and these are all

-- you've got them on your plans. These are all

plans that fit on these size lots that we've

incorporated. One of the changes from the

original design where we had 242 units, is that

we've gone from 50 foot to 60 foot. We've

widened the lots a little bit almost all the way

through. We have kept the minimum down to 50,

but really, if you go through and scale these

off, almost every one of these is 60 feet or so.

It gives you a little more flexibility with some

of these plans. At 50, we had plans that worked,

but it limited some of the nicer plans that we

liked, so we decided it was better to lose a few

lots and broaden the selection of houses that we

can incorporate. These are all new designs.

These are designed for these types of

developments, and they are designed to fit on

these lots.

The other thing that we've done, I just want

to show you a couple things about the townhouse

renderings that we've done. All tri-plexes --

this one's a little bit different. This has a

single-car garage for each one of the units, this

one's a little larger, it's got a two-car garage

for each one of the units.

MS. EDDY: Do we have those?

MR. BOOTH: This one is already on the plan.

This is a new one here.

We have gone through, and these are plans

that are buildable, they are affordable. This, I

think, is a beautiful plan. We talked about

peaks; this is not a super-expensive plan to

build. If you look at it, you've got a couple

gables, you got a couple of dormers, but it's not

over-the-top expensive.

As we go through the process, we have to

balance site cost with sidewalks and trees, the

lights, the roads and the houses so we get the

market. If you do every single house on here

with brick or stone, more than likely you're

going to push yourself way out of the market, and

we're not looking to do that. Scott, through his

presentation, talked about young professionals,

empty-nesters, seniors. Those people need to be

able to afford to buy, as well.

The other thing we put in the model ordinance

is no two houses the same color next to each

other.

MS. EDDY: Thank you, God.

MR. BOOTH: It just doesn't work. We know it

doesn't work and it's in the ordinance and can't

be done, and I think it's a -- I think you'll

agree with me, it's a good move. So, the first

one in, they pick. They pick a blue house, they

get blue. Nobody can do blue on the left or

right side. The next person has to do something

different. And I think it breaks it up as you

drive down the street. You're not going to have

three blue houses.

And these are some of the things we're trying

to go through, and also looking for feedback. If

I say something and you say, well, that's not

going to work, let me know. We're really trying

to put a lot of thought into the design and

making this, again, a neighborhood place, a place

people can be proud of their homes and say they

live in Stonebridge. I think we're on the right

track. Again, any feedback that you have, we're

more than willing to listen to.

MR. HAYDEN: When you say this neighborhood

place, you mean this neighborhood. What about

the Chapel Hill people; how are you going to talk

about flower gardens, Christmas trees?

MR. BOOTH: Well, unfortunately, that's not

part of that project.

MR. HAYDEN: It's going to be connected,

isn't it, though?

MR. BOOTH: It is going to be connected,

that's true. What this does offer that Chapel

Hill doesn't offer are the street lights and the

trees, Joan, the sidewalks, but what you got in

Chapel Hill are larger lots. You got 125-foot

lots, 130, 140, 150-foot lots. You've got larger

estate-type lots. In here, nobody gets a lot

bigger than 60, 70 feet. It's a different feel.

MS. EDDY: I promised these men I was not

going to talk tonight because I feel like --

awful, but I can't stop myself.

Are you going to do similar designs on Chapel

Hill to this, or is it going to look more like

Beacon Hill?

MR. BOOTH: More like Beacon Hill.

MR. JOHNSON: Will this subdivision be sold

to a builder like Beacon Hill was and Chapel

Hill, same situation?

MR. BOOTH: Yes.

MR. JOHNSON: So, it's really going to be up

to that builder.

MR. BOOTH: That's why we're going through

this process now.

MS. EDDY: So, am I to understand that what

we put in here is what we can hold his feet to

the fire on?

MR. BOOTH: Yes.

MS. EDDY: Let's design houses, boys.

If you're going to do this kind of thing, if

this truly is your concept, if those truly are

your concepts and you're willing to follow

through with whoever the developer is, I think

it's terrific. If the facade of the one on the

right is going to go away because it all of a

sudden isn't going to fit them, I don't

understand why we're going through all this. I

think Tom's point I will probably take a little

bit harder than he was going to do. Find

somebody who will do it this way.

MR. BOOTH: Does that work for you?

MS. EDDY: Well, yeah. I'm only one person.

I think these are great, because they don't look

like ticky-tacky little houses. They're all

different. I'm just concerned about the cost.

MR. KNOX: I'm concerned about the cost, too.

These also have to be affordable for the audience

we're --

MS. EDDY: Well, your single family's what is

your market. I'm not sure your market is what is

up in Chapel Hill. You might get a more --

overly used term, but a boutique market, if you

will, down in this less farm field type of area

than Chapel Hill is, which is just an extension

of Beacon Hill. If you can find a way to pull

this off, I think this would be terrific, but

when you're looking at the double porches and

that kind of thing, I guess, if you just put

stone -- I'm sitting here trying to figure out

how to make -- it depends on what you put on the

inside. If hardwood becomes an upgrade, fine.

It depends on what you guys -- well, it's not

you, it's whoever you sell it to.

MR. CWALINSKI: How do we hold -- you know, I

look at these designs and they are really nice.

It's definitely an upscale crowd in there and I

think a neighborhood, if built with these houses,

would be extremely --

MS. EDDY: Were you around for Beacon Hill?

MR. CWALINSKI: I just started with Beacon

Hill.

MS. EDDY: Do you remember the pictures

that --

MR. CWALINSKI: Yes.

MS. EDDY: Because I asked for it, and not a

single thing in there is like it. It's like

Rotterdam and everything else.

MR. CWALINSKI: So, how do we make sure this

is what gets built, is my question?

MR. BOOTH: First of all, I have to say, I

think if you were to go back and look at some of

those homes, some of those designs are the same,

Joan. I know they -- listen, the reality is --

MS. EDDY: It's the overall picture.

MR. BOOTH: The reality is, when you look at

these pictures with the white fences and the

trees, and this -- it's never going to look like

this. It's never going to look exactly like

that --

MS. EDDY: Well, it wouldn't in my lifetime,

but if somebody plants and that kind of thing, it

certainly may.

MR. BOOTH: One of the things that's

different here is that we are going to have trees

all along the road. Beacon Hill doesn't have

trees.

MS. EDDY: Well, you didn't just start out

with them.

MR. BOOTH: But here you got trees all around

the outside of the site, here we try to keep

green spaces between the uses in here. This will

be green all the way around. Walk through this

property now and it's amazing. But you will have

trees all the way along all of the roads, and

there will be street lights. We are looking

similar to the village of Saratoga on Crescent

Street. If you walk through that project, that's

a similar project to what we're going to do here

with the single-family houses.

MR. CWALINSKI: How do we insure this gets

gets built? Can we set house designs into an

ordinance?

MR. BOOTH: I don't think so. I think you

need the flexibility for the houses when you're

going to start tweaking things out a little more,

a little wider, not quite as deep. I think you

need flexibility. You have a house that's not

selling, you need the flexibility to alter that

house. Nobody is going to put the kind of money

into the streets, the sidewalks, the lights, all

the other things in here, and then --

MS. EDDY: All right. Did I understand

correctly that you're going to put a front porch

on everything?

MR. BOOTH: Some sort of a front porch.

MR. KNOX: I think the streetscape is going

to lend itself to something very unique between

the sidewalks, the land and the trees. I am

concerned about saying we are definitely going to

build these. This is what we desire to build.

This is what we want to build, and this is what

we're going to be marketing. The buyer's going

to have to pick and it's going to be cost. And

Joan, you know the business.

MS. EDDY: Yeah, I know the business, and

that is exactly why I'm concerned, because we had

this conversation when we did Beacon Hill. I

kept bothering you for what was going to be your

base, what your entry level, whatever, and the

market took it a lot higher than you thought it

was going to. So, if I could predict what the

market was going to be, I would not be sitting

here.

That having been said, I move we table this

and we have maybe a workshop or something and

figure out how to deal with this.

MR. CWALINSKI: I agree.

MS. EDDY: And maybe you guys come up with

something that you think is attractive that's

feasible in today's market and then we can go

from there. What kinds of things do you really

want to see in your development, because I

especially like these two, because I haven't seen

them anywhere else, but something vaguely

similar.

MR. BOOTH: I still think we need the

flexibility.

MS. EDDY: I know you need flexibility, but

what you're also saying on the other hand, help

us help you figure out how to keep it more like

this than more like Beacon Hill, and you're going

to drive that bus by who you hire to build these

houses, but if you can choose some things that

you want to have as a theme, whether everybody

has a little monument jobby and 10 feet of picket

fence out in front, every other house, or if one

style specifically has it. I don't know. Grab a

couple of design things that you'd like to see

through there, and let us know what they are.

MR. KNOX: Joan, we'll look at a certain

vernacular that runs through the community that

ties things together which hopefully will be cost

effective and will work --

MS. EDDY: Well, tell us what it is, because

you're showing us that and we assume that's what

it is, but you're saying you're not sure you can

build that and hit the market. I agree.

MR. BOOTH: I think a lot of these plans will

work. It's a matter of, is it going to have all

brick in it. Chances are --

MS. EDDY: Probably not.

MR. BOOTH: Brick is very expensive up here.

South Carolina they got very cheap labor.

Completely different. When was the last time you

saw an all brick house for less than 800,000

dollars? It's been a long time.

When we initially started this, we put these

four plans on there. These are plans that we

looked at and said we can build these plans.

These are very similar.

MS. EDDY: Are there any ranches anywhere in

this?

MR. BOOTH: Here is a one and-a-half story.

We do have some ranches. I don't have them here.

I think there is one here, but there are ranches.

I've got ranches. We could put seven or eight

plans on here, but I've got ranch plans --

MS. EDDY: Well, again, that's what the

market's going for. So, if we're going to do

that, then figure out --

Does this make sense to you?

MR. CWALINSKI: It does.

MS. EDDY: I think we need to tweak this, to

be fair to you and the town, because I like this

concept just in general, a lot --

MR. CWALINSKI: It's upscale and it looks

nice.

MS. EDDY: But I think it ought to be done

right the first time out of the shoot so it can

be done again somewhere else. That's all.

MR. CWALINSKI: All right. So, we want to

table this application, unless you have something

more to say.

MS. EDDY: No, I am done.

MR. VAN VORST: Seeing as how it's called

Stonebridge, there ought to be a lot of stone in

there, huh?

MR. BOOTH: We'll call it Vinylbridge.

MR. CWALINSKI: All right. So, we'll table

this application.

That water flow data, Scott, can you get that

to Kathryn?

MR. BOOTH: With the rest of the model

ordinance.

MR. JOHNSON: I had one question on the one

section, Page 8 C3, sidewalks. Have you had

discussions at all with the highway

superintendent about the clearing of the

sidewalks --

MR. BOOTH: Yes. Yes.

MR. JOHNSON: Does he seem to be okay with

that?

MR. BOOTH: We had a lengthy discussion with

him, and basically the idea was that sidewalks

would be the responsibility of either the HOA or

individual homeowner. If they do not clear, and

I forget what we put in here, I think 72 hours --

MR. JOHNSON: Then the highway department has

to do it.

MR. BOOTH: Right, and then they would be

assessed at cost back to the homeowner, and Joe

was fine with that. He said he's had enough time

for his guys to clear around town and if they had

to go out there and clean this up, that was okay

we did this.

MS. EDDY: Geoff, is there anything in here

about post boxes?

MR. CWALINSKI: Those are dictated by the

Post Office. They have to put them up as

specified by the Post Office. They have their

own rules.

MS. EDDY: Well, they're looking for

uniformity, height, size, that kind of thing,

yes, but do you want to have anything in here

that says you can't have anything, or do you want

something --

MR. BOOTH: I'm sorry. Can you say that

again?

MS. EDDY: Well, if we're going to tighten

this up, do you want anything in here that says

you can't have a fire truck as your mailbox or --

MR. CWALINSKI: Aesthetics.

MS. EDDY: Yeah, that's where I'm headed.

MR. BOOTH: You're looking for consistency --

MS. EDDY: Yeah. Is that something you want?

It's not here, but again, it's one of those

things, as people are driving through --

MR. BOOTH: I think that's a good idea.

MS. EDDY: So, tweak that, figure out how you

want to deal with that one.

MR. CWALINSKI: There's one person on my road

that has a quarter-keg for a mailbox.

MR. BOOTH: As Jeff said, the Postal

Authority is going to dictate some of this. For

instance, where the condos are, there are going

to be gang boxes.

MS. EDDY: But where the single-families are,

you have streetscape, is what is your big thing,

then follow through on your streetscape idea.

MR. BOOTH: Absolutely.

MS. EDDY: I'm assuming everybody will have

blacktop driveway.

MR. BOOTH: Absolutely.

MS. EDDY: And a street light, light post?

MR. BOOTH: We're doing the houses closer and

you got street lights every fifty feet.

MS. EDDY: So, we don't need post lights.

MR. BOOTH: I'm not sure that you need -- I

can have post lights out there, but the houses

are going to be closer. There will be lights,

obviously, on the houses.

MS. EDDY: Where do identifying numbers have

to go for 911?

MR. BOOTH: We should have that in here. Six

inches -- it's in here about the numbers.

MS. EDDY: Do they have to be lit?

MR. BOOTH: I don't believe so, but easily

visible.

What is it, six inch letters?

MR. JOHNSON: Yes, six inches, and if you put

them both on the mailbox and on the house.

MS. EDDY: Uniformity on the mailbox, by the

way, letters.

MR. BOOTH: Is it a requirement to have them

on the mailboxes?

MR. JOHNSON: The newer houses, I push to get

people to put them on the mailbox and on the

house. That's the way it's gone on in Beacon

Hill and they've been very cooperative with that.

MR. CWALINSKI: Derek, you asked about

traffic.

MR. HAYDEN: Yeah, I think you're doing a

traffic analysis?

MR. BOOTH: We're just finishing it up and it

will be submitted.

MS. CYR: Is that something to send out for

the Board? We had a resolution on that for the

car wash project, and I want to be consistent on

that. When we receive traffic studies, that it

goes to the --

MR. CWALINSKI: That is correct. Yes.

MR. BOOTH: It's going to the new traffic

consultant for the town?

MS. CYR: All you have to do is get it to me

and I'm in contact with them.

MR. BOOTH: Okay. So, we'll get that to you

this week.

Just go back, I'm just curious, again, you're

looking for consistency among -- I think it's

safe to say we're going do put these 10 house

plans in there. I just want to make sure I

understand so when we come back together, we have

something that's going to be substantive here. I

think it's very difficult, there are as many

people out there as there are designs for houses.

If you look online for house designs, there are

thousands, and I think to try to limit us to ten

plans or twelve plans, it's going to be very

difficult. That's why some of the things we try

to do here was two garages as opposed to one

garage, things like that, where you have

consistency going down the road.

MS. EDDY: And you were going to shorten the

distance from the front to where the garage is to

where the front door is.

MR. BOOTH: That's right.

MS. EDDY: That kind of thing, doing what you

refer to as the Williamsburg whatever over the

garage door, and two garage doors, which is also

going to be more costly. People don't like that,

but that's all right, because it puts a post in

the middle. Whatever is important to you about

those plans. Figure out what you think, porches.

MR. CWALINSKI: Porches, peaks, roof lines;

that makes the house, in my opinion, two garage

doors.

MR. BOOTH: I guess I'll be struggling with

how you incorporate peaks on the house. For

instance, you talk about this is not a real

difficult or expensive plan to build here. You

got a couple of dormers here --

MS. EDDY: And you could take that second

peak out and make it just straight across and it

would look fine to me. I'd be happy with that.

It has a cape look and the whole nine yards. And

again, this is a perfect example of what's

important to people. I don't like a whole lot of

peaks. I think it's way too busy and it's a

waste of money. I'd rather put it some place

else, but that's my thought. What do you want to

see? Do you want to see -- and Peter's not here

-- can you attach "similar to", to this? Well,

can you attach to the legislation?

MR. HAYDEN: Not my specialty.

MR. KNOX: I think it's going to be too

difficult to do that. We can incorporate some of

the trim detail, setting the garages back --

MS. EDDY: Well, do that and come back. I

think what we're also trying to do for future

reference is not build this for you. You go do

what you think you figured out and we have asked

you for and come back, and if it's not quite

right yet, we'll continue to tweak. I don't want

to build your project for you. We don't want to

and you don't want us to.

MR. KNOX: And we don't want to restrict this

to --

MS. EDDY: I understand that, but I don't

want to see another Beacon Hill, plain and

simple.

MR. BOOTH: And I don't think you're going

to. I think already with the lights, the trees,

the sidewalks, I don't think you're going to.

We're so far ahead of Beacon Hill at this point.

MS. EDDY: Very honestly, it depends entirely

on who you sell the project to, because you know

as well as I do, somebody can take a perfectly

fine Bentley and make it look like a Chevy.

MR. BOOTH: I got to say, Joan, with the

sidewalks, street lights, trees, you can't screw

that up, but we are looking at house designs.

So, do I understand that the townhouse designs,

you guys are pretty comfortable with those

designs?

MR. CWALINSKI: Yes.

MS. EDDY: Yes.

MR. BOOTH: And the condo design, the same

condos we've been using; so, those are

comfortable, also?

MR. CWALINSKI: Yes.

MR. BOOTH: So, really, we're looking to just

try to fine tune the houses, some of the details

we'd like to keep consistent throughout, as Jeff

said, the vernacular of the designs. Is there

anything else, as you read through this, that

jumped out at you that you said, wow, that's a

real problem for me?

Tom, did you have anything as you read

through this?

MR. JOHNSON: Just a couple of items I

brought up.

MR. BOOTH: Anything else, guys? Did you get

any feedback from Don or Josephine prior to the

meeting?

MS. EDDY: No.

MR. BOOTH: Do you want us to set up a

workshop meeting so we can sit down and go

through this stuff sometime in the next couple

weeks? Because if that's where you want to go,

I'd like --

MR. CWALINSKI: We can, but I'd wanted the

other people who are not here on the board, also.

MR. BOOTH: On a time frame?

MR. CWALINSKI: On a time frame, and exactly

what are we going to discuss. I'm not going to

discuss, okay, build plan A or build plan B --

MS. EDDY: No, but to get the continuity,

some sort of visual continuity going. That's

all.

MR. CWALINSKI: So, discuss aesthetic issues

that are important to us that we think we should

incorporate --

MS. EDDY: I think we need to control it as

much as we possibly can.

MR. BOOTH: Without building it.

MS. EDDY: Oh, I'll build it. Give me the

money.

MR. BOOTH: All right. Thank you very much.

Appreciate your time.

MR. CWALINSKI: All right.

Go ahead.

MR. LANCING: Again, for the record, my name

is Scott Lansing of Lansing Engineering. I'm

here tonight with Jeff Knox and Geoff Booth of

New York Development Group for the Cornerstone

Condominiums project.

Just to refresh the Board's memory, this

project was before the Board a couple months ago

for conceptual sketch plan review. It was

received well by the Board and we were directed

to advance to the preliminary design phase of the

project.

The overall site area is approximately 7.7

acres and we are proposing to develop the back

portion of the parcel, approximately 6.65 acres

of the parcel, into condominiums. The current

zoning for the parcel is Mixed Use North. We are

proposing to follow the zoning in the Mixed Use

North district. The number of lots for

verification purposes, we are proposing a

subdivision on this parcel as well as something

we will add to the plans, dividing out the front

portion of the parcel that has the existing

commercial use, a potential future use if that is

modified, that would be 1.05 acres. Again, the

back portion of the parcel is 6.65 acres for

condominiums under a special use in the Mixed Use

North district.

We are proposing 14 condominium buildings,

four units per building for a total of 56 units,

and this has gone down since the last time the

Board has seen this. It was previously 60 units.

Set-backs, we are proposing a side yard set-back,

rear yard set-back of 10 feet, front yard

set-back from property line we'll be proposing 10

feet, as well.

Parking would be two parking spaces per unit

for total of 112 proposed spaces in the project.

Site coverage, as far as green space provided, we

are providing 3.65 acres of green space, or

approximately 55 percent of the parcel, and that

would be just on the back section.

Condominium site coverage would be 3 acres,

or 45 percent. Water supply would be from the

Town of Ballston and sanitary sewer would be

through the Saratoga County Sewer District.

We have received comments from C.T. Male.

They are in a technical nature. We are in the

process now of addressing those comments. We'll

be submitting the responses on that on Wednesday

of this week for C.T. Male to review.

We're here tonight for questions and comments

from the Board and requesting the Board's

consideration to set a public hearing for the

subdivision and site plan for comments and we

will incorporate that into the plans.

Thank you very much.

MR. CWALINSKI: Okay. I didn't see a

landscaping plan on this. Is it too early in the

process?

MR. LANSING: I believe we have one --

MS. CYR: This is one in the packet.

MR. LANSING: And a lighting plan, as well.

Sheets 8 and 9 of the drawing set.

MR. CWALINSKI: This is going to be a private

road, not turned over to the Town?

MR. BOOTH: That's correct.

MR. CWALINSKI: So it would be maintained by

a Homeowners' Association which also maintains

the green space?

MR. LANSING: Yes.

MR. HAYDEN: The other project that was

supposed to be on the agenda tonight, that's not

happening?

MR. BOOTH: We withdrew that application.

MR. VAN VORST: On the previous plans you

showed that the existing buildings in the front

were going to remain; is that changing?

MR. LANSING: The primary building would

remain. There is an existing structure in the

back; that's coming out.

MR. VAN VORST: When you brought the proposal

last time, one of the things we asked was that

you provide for us the entrance into Mangino's on

the map. I don't see that here.

MR. BOOTH: Right above the word

"construction".

MR. VAN VORST: Is that on one of our

pictures?

MR. LANSING: No, it's not.

MR. CWALINSKI: You'd like to see that on

drawing?

MR. VAN VORST: Yes.

MR. CWALINSKI: All right. We'd like to see

that on drawing.

MR. LANSING: Okay.

MR. CWALINSKI: Is there enough room for any

meaningful screening behind the buildings at the

south?

MR. LANSING: Scale on this is probably about

20, 25 feet. 20 feet there, 25 feet there. The

buildings are staggered.

MR. CWALINSKI: All right. Because I was

looking just to screen them along the border

there, but 20 feet's not enough room to put

anything --

MR. BOOTH: That's all green now, Jeff.

That's all trees. It's actually a nice forest

area there.

MR. CWALINSKI: Okay. I'm satisfied.

MR. FORSHEY: I have a question, please.

MR. CWALINSKI: We're not taking public

comment yet.

MR. FORSHEY: I just have a question.

MR. CWALINSKI: Go ahead. Ask it.

MR. FORSHEY: I have a property next door

where the curb cut's coming out. How far is that

from the property now?

MR. LANSING: The curb cut right here?

MR. FORSHEY: Yes.

MR. LANSING: There was a hypothetical

projection from the property line to the edge of

the pavement would be a minimum of five feet from

that hypothetical projection. That is a DOT

requirement.

MR. FORSHEY: My next question is, I have a

driveway right on that property line. If I were

wanting to put a business next door, how would

that affect my ingress and egress in relation to

having a curb cut here and a curb cut --

MS. CYR: Is the curb cut for a residence?

MR. FORSHEY: Yes. I have always --

MS. CYR: When they perform the traffic

study, because your driveway's there, they need

to accommodate your direct driveway, your future

use of the property.

MR. FORSHEY: If I were to go commercial,

which it is commercial, what affect would this

have on my --having a driveway on the same

property line?

MS. CYR: It would probably be up to DOT.

I'm not DOT. I can't speak for them. But

because you have an existing driveway there and

they want to put another driveway almost right

next to it, their application for a curb cut with

DOT would take into consideration your property

and how it impacts your property there. If they

intend to develop fully, they need to apply for

curb cuts because you'll need to widen it.

Generally, DOT doesn't like to see

residential roads with property with two large

entrances next to each other. You connect to

their existing road, that kind of thing.

MR. FORSHEY: That is my question, because

where the curb cut is now, would not affect my

property, but if this moved over to the edge of

my property what affect could the development of

my property be? That's my question and my

concern, as well.

MR. CWALINSKI: Okay. Anybody else?

MR. HAYDEN: What's the plan for the center

of that circular area, and also triangular area?

MR. LANSING: Just an open space area.

MR. HAYDEN: And what about inside the circle

at the top? Same thing?

MR. LANSING: Open space area, as well.

MS. CYR: I have a question about the

backyard of these buildings. Is there intended

to be decks and patios? My biggest concern would

be buildings 10 and 11. They are right on top of

the detention basin. Obviously the detention

basin will be owned and operated by the

Homeowners' Association, so the Town has no

maintenance and rights to this, however someone's

-- the corner of the building -- I've already

commented you need a 25-foot buffer. However,

some buildings may be outside that 25-foot

buffer. It leaves them no option for building a

patio or option for a backyard because it is so

close to the feature that is, frankly, dangerous

for children.

MR. LANSING: There are areas where those

set-back lots are closer to those structures,

closer than others. If there is room for a deck,

I would imagine they can apply for a permit and

build it on a case-by-case basis.

MR. BOOTH: Actually, these building designs,

there is a patio area for the lower two units

built within the footprint of the building. So,

as you see this area here, there is actually a

patio area underneath here.

MS. CYR: That actually wasn't what I was

seeing. You're saying there is going to be

a patio area beneath?

MR. BOOTH: That's right. That's right.

MR. CWALINSKI: Anything else?

You're asking to us put you on the agenda for

a site plan review next month?

MR. LANSING: It's my understanding this

would require a public hearing both for the site

plan and subdivision and we were hoping to get

that on for public hearing and obtain comments

and make that part of the plan. So, we're asking

the Board to consider that.

MR. CWALINSKI: Tom, can we do that, put them

on the site plan review?

MR. JOHNSON: They're on for concept right

now. If the Board has anymore concerns they'd

like to see before the site plan review, they

could probably state them now and we can put them

on for a public hearing.

MS. CYR: Would your traffic study be

complete by then?

MR. BOOTH: Yes.

MR. CWALINSKI: All right.

MR. JOHNSON: I'm not clear on the

subdivision portion. Can you explain that?

MR. LANSING: The front portion of the parcel

is approximately 1.05 acres. We're proposing to

subdivide for the existing and future commercial

use in that area.

MS. EDDY: So, it would be another curb cut?

MR. LANSING: The cut would actually be

modified so they're coming in off the proposed

road. So, there would be only one curb cut for

the entire site.

MR. JOHNSON: I assume the dotted line on

page one is a set-back line.

MR. LANSING: That is prior to us adding in a

line for the subdivision. We would have a

property line now proposed 10 feet away from that

dash line on the LL1 plan.

MR. JOHNSON: Now, are you looking to have the

subdivision included in the public hearing, as

well?

MR. LANSING: If we could.

MR. JOHNSON: If that's the case, then we

should have the map showing --

MR. LANSING: We will submit that Wednesday.

MR. JOHNSON: Now, the existing cornerstone

building, on page L1 it says the existing building

will be removed, that's the general area where the

existing cornerstone building is?

MR. LANSING: On LL1 that is a plan that

actually says existing building.

MR. JOHNSON: Do the other maps that they

have, have that on there? I don't think so,

because I have the same one.

MR. LANSING: No, it's not. We'll add it.

MR. VAN VORST: Do you have any pictures of

what these units are going to look like?

MR. BOOTH: Yeah, the same ones we used

before.

MR. CWALINSKI: Those are four units, one

garage per unit?

MR. LANSING: Correct.

MR. CWALINSKI: How do they access the top

and bottom units? Through one common door?

MR. BOOTH: This door here goes up to the

upper unit and this goes to the lower unit.

MR. HAYDEN: So, this is the same design as

the Stonebridge ones?

MR. BOOTH: Yes.

MS. CYR: Same as Beacon Hill, also?

MR. BOOTH: Yes.

MR. CWALINSKI: Any other comments?

MS. EDDY: Same old, same old. You're going

to vary colors?

MR. LANSING: Yes.

MR. CWALINSKI: All right. So, I'd like to

put you on the agenda for next month for

subdivision.

MS. EDDY: This month.

MR. CWALINSKI: That's right. This month.

For subdivision and site plan review.

MR. BOOTH: Great. Thank you.

MR. KNOX: Appreciate you coming out on an

off night.

MR. CWALINSKI: Motion to adjourn?

MR. VAN VORST: Motion to adjourn.

MR. HAYDEN: Second.

MR. CWALINSKI: All in favor?

(Whereupon the motion to adjourn was passed

and the meeting was adjourned at 8:55 p.m.)