Chairman Doyle called the November 28, 2007meeting to order at 7:30pm and led the Pledge of Allegiance. Chairman Doyle reviewed the agenda.

Corrections to the November 1, 2007 minutes: Page 1) 2^nd para: add "meeting"

Mr. Cwalinski made a motion to accept the November 1, 2007 minutes as amended. Ms. Eddy seconded the motion and all voted in favor. CARRIED.

Geoff Brooks, Round Lake Road for a Traditional Neighborhood Development (TND). Warren Longacker of Lansing Engineering was present to represent Mr. Brooks for the Round Lake Road Traditional Neighborhood Development. Mr. Longacker said the last time the applicant was in front of the Board was September 27, 2007 and that time asked for preliminary approval. Mr. Longacker said that there are still outstanding comments from CT Male which still need to be addressed and from the TND Engineer, Stevens and Associates.

Mr. Longacker said that the project consists of 111 acres in volume located at the intersection of Round Lake Road and East Line Road. The property is zoned Ballston Lake Residential which permits a TND. The subdivision will consist off 55 single family dwellings and 22 duplex units totaling 99 units.

The property will be serviced by water and sewer off-site. The storm water will be managed on-site.

Mr. Longacker said that the comments from CT Male were technical in nature which included a cross culvert underneath the proposed roadway C to the ditch line to one side of the road to the other also the utility sheets all around the community with piping inside of the culverts. Mr. Longacker said that the storm water management basin has been reduced in size considerably. Mr. Longacker said that the Surveyor has retained right-of-way from Saratoga County and CT Male had comments with regard the proposed sewer line being located on private property with the condition of the right-of-way information is in the right-of-way. Mr. Longacker has included the wetlands along Eastline Road and Round Lake Road and included additional sediment and erosion control measures.

Mr. Longacker said that Stevens and Associates in reference to the TND layout suggested to eliminate the cul-de-sac and the creation of a larger circular area and reduce the road by about 35ft. Mr. Longacker indicated that the sidewalks have been pushed back by approximately 2ft. by the edge of right-of-way which creates and 8ft. wide tree belt for additional safety between the roads to the sidewalk. The sidewalks have also been changed to eliminate the crossings from the radiuses that are now prior to them; additional crosswalks have been to the "T" type style intersection. Mr. Longacker said the open space area have all been oriented to face the open space. The façade of the building will all face the entrance and no façade will repeat the single family for every four structures and every two structures for the duplexes.

Mr. Longacker indicated that Mr. Stevens recommend that the radius be 20ft., but the town code is 30ft.

Mr. Longacker said that the relocation of roadway "C" and use the topography and wetland areas. Mr. Longacker said that there has been a relocation of the pump station.

Mr. Cwalinski asked Mr. Longacker to point out where the sidewalks are located. Mr. Cwalinski asked if the crossings will be painted on the road.

Mr. Rhodes asked about the TND regulations are talking about a 20ft. curb radius, but in Mr. Rhodes opinion feels the general town code is deficient 30ft. Mr. Rhodes feels that having that wide of a curb radius is not for emergency services is to allow conflicts to be minimized in rare instances. Mr. Rhodes feels that this project should have what was originally proposed. Mr. Reilly does not disagree, but does not know if Joseph Whalen, Highway Superintendent has looked at this proposal and certainly a TND does call for 20ft. Ms. Serra said that she will propose that question to Mr. Whalen. Mr. Rhodes said that the traffic engineer reiterated the same concept talking about the rare instance of the conflict, but just making sure that the turning movement worked with the typical design vehicle allowing the consumption of the next lane; reduction of crossing distance to slow people down. Mr. Rhodes said that if Mr. Whalen needs any further information he (Mr. Rhodes) would be happy to put together material for Mr. Whalen.

Mr. Rhodes said that since this is a TND not regulated under the PUDD statues, the Board is going to have to have some covenants and restrictions that are very consistent of the last TND project; clear design standards that are in the code.

Ms. Eddy asked about the traffic study. Mr. Longacker said that the traffic study was completed by Creighton Manning and were sent off for review. Ms. Serra said that she will begin the process with BFJ to initially talk with the County and the Town of Ballston and the Town of Malta. Mr. Rhodes said that the BFJ study was indicating bringing up again what was a final point of the Comprehensive Plan by developing traffic plan transportation impact study. Mr. Rhodes said that this project clearly makes the next trigger over have to do something.

Ms. Cristy asks how the applicants propose a large fire truck to maneuver throughout the site. Mr. Longacker said that they did overlay the entire site and it does make it through the entire project. Mr. Rhodes said that in an emergency services situation that you are consuming as much as both lanes as you need; there is a lot more space there you would typically have to stay within your lane of traffic.

Mr. Johnson has a concern with parking on the street would have a great impact. Mr. Rhodes said that TND suggests parking on the street. Mr. Johnson said that it is not a good thing. Mr. Rhodes said that during snow clearing situation it is not, during the intersections it is. Mr. Johnson said using the whole street will create a problem. Mr. Rhodes replied mid-block normally it is near an intersection where signage is very important. Mr. Rhodes said that this is an urban design in a rural area to preserve open space and have to bring some of the design features from the city along with this which is no parking being in there. Mr. Rhodes said that when you have parking on the street it slows people down.

Ms. Serra said that was the recommendation for BFJ was to approach the County up to the applicant to approach that BFJ would be involved prior to any final approval of the Planning Board.

Mr. Doyle asks the applicant if they want to move forward or want to resolve the traffic issue first.

The applicant would like to move forward with preliminary approval.

Mr. Reilly can understand preliminary subject to resolution of traffic items and would prefer the Board not to move forward at this point because of certain legal implications. Mr. Reilly’s suggestion would be not to grant preliminary approval.

MOTION: Mr. Rhodes moved to table. Ms. Eddy seconded the motion and all present voted in favor. CARRIED.

Mr. Doyle discussed with Mr. Longacker moving forward with utilities at the applicant’s risk.

Ms. Serra said that CT Male is pushing to have an extension for water at Mourningdale Court which will be forwarded to the Town Board.

Mr. Doyle opened the public hearing 7:55pm

Jim Splaine, 2 Mourningdale Court asked where the entrance to the proposed subdivision. Mr. Longacker said that it is approximately 600ft. from Round Lake Road and Eastline Road. Mr. Splaine said that most of the homes in the proposed subdivisions will have sump pumps. Mr. Longacker said that the basements will have a storm water drain systems will drain to the DEC wetland on the south portion of the property.

Application tabled.

NISHA-9/Roma International Properties, 1402 Route 50, for Site Plan Review and a Special Use Permit {Concept}. Chris Cate was present on behalf of M.J. Tarar of RunWay Express Gas Station. Mr. Cate said that there were two comments from BFJ to eliminate the southerly driveway on Route 50 or at the very least make it a right turn in only and right turn out only. Mr. Cate has recalculated the traffic impacts and there has been no change. Mr. Cate said that the site design has maximized conflicts between the drive-thru traffic and pedestrians on site per Ms. Serra to disregard comments and did not reflect the project site.

Mr. Cate said that the calculations for storm water recharge have been included. A water quality data report for the carwash is being prepared by others. The sewer line is being changed to 8" throughout. The boring beneath Route 50 the contractor will retain approvals. Mr. Cate said the plans that have been provided a back well preventor has been detailed for the car wash. Mr. Cate said that gasoline deliveries the trucks will park adjacent to the pumps and would not block access and for the parking in that area general deliveries the truck would enter from the south and hand truck in and out of the store and then exit to the east. Mr. Cate said that the deliveries would try to be scheduled in the off peak hours.

Mr. Cate said that there was a request for Saratoga County DPW for curb cut configurations on Brookline Road have been submitted and are still waiting for approvals.

Mr. Cate said that the boundaries and adjacent property owners are shown on the plans as well as limits and grading, clearing have been shown.

Mr. Doyle said that the Boards major concerns is traffic flow on the roadway and the traffic flow internal to the site.

Mr. Cate said that outstanding issues was the southern driveway lane; southern portion of Route 50 which has been changed in the site plan to be a right in and right out only. There were minimal changes in the delay at this driveway and the level of service did not change and the impacts to the adjacent roadways did not change from the original analysis. Mr. Cate said that a cue analysis was performed for the Dunkin Donuts and the car wash based on the peak time of service; Dunkin Donuts drive thru is 11 vehicles maximum and the car wash is 12 vehicles maximum in a peak hour. Mr. Cate said that the drive thru is showing 12 vehicles in all reality based on best entry judgment three to four vehicles will cue for the Dunkin Donuts and three to four for the car wash; there are five extra spaces on the site for employee parking.

Mr. Cate said that the Subway located at the proposed site is a satellite store; reheating with a microwave.

Mr. Cate said that there have been accommodations made on Route 50 for sidewalks.

Mr. Cwalinski asked about traffic study. Mr. Cate said that trips generated from this site it’s negligible based of the BFJ Route 67 corridor study using their numbers for a full build-out; single digit increase in delay. Mr. Cwalinski asked that the gas station built up in front to our town design standards 20ft in the right-of-way. Mr. Cwalinski feels it would slow the traffic down and make it easier for people to get in and out of the site and put the gas pumps out to the left or the right. Mr. Cate indicated that a natural fence has been added.

A further discussion was held on using the land available by the applicant to alleviate the congestion on the site. Mr. Doyle also said that if the applicant would concur, the Board could ask one of our consultants to look at the project and put together some ideas and have a sketch of how it best fits on site; to meet design standards, setbacks, location of gas pumps and what is the best traffic flow.

Mr. Doyle said that the Board is at a point where our consultant said that we are at a point where our consultant said it is not the best, but it will work. Mr. Doyle mentioned the Board is concerned with pedestrian safety there is a lot of traffic going in many of ways and an individual needs to come up with ideas to meet these requirements.

Mr. Rhodes asked how many Dunkin Donut trips per hour. Mr. Cate replied 11 for the cue analysis. Mr. Rhodes asked the applicant to do trip counts for two of the area Dunkin Donuts and see if that is accurate and would say that is very light. Mr. Cate indicated that the numbers were taken from the BFJ corridor study. Mr. Rhodes said the best way to do it is to look at real world situation which is look at the Dunkin Donuts in Ballston Spa and Malta count those during peak hours and find out people are going through there and that is the number that you will look for the study. Mr. Rhodes said that allocating the trips once they are in the site; location of the pick up window in the building. Mr. Cate pointed out the location and Mr. Rhodes said that the allocations of those trips will have most of them upward of Brookline Road and tackling a lot of pass thru and someone on Brookline Road will take a left into the site circle all the way around the building to get into the drive thru lane and then either due a u-turn on site or wait in line again (which will probably not happen) or going to go to the signal which then get the allocation of trips to probably flawed. Mr. Cate said the analysis is based on the concept site plan and did not have any information. Mr. Rhodes said that the internal circulation as well as the external circulation play together and needs to be modified and brought together, but make sure that your computations are of BFJ studies and the rest on your own and should supplement the car wash trip count similar to the car wash in Malta. Mr. Rhodes said that the allocations of trips is important and minimize the conflicts by not having that many access points on the adjacent roadways. Mr. Rhodes asked the applicants to pick one that works well for that intersection.

Mr. Rhodes said that he still does not see storm water management on this site and still needs to be added to this site. Mr. Cate said that it was included in the place submitted and it is still being worked on.

Mr. Rhodes said that he would like to see the engineer work with the applicant with a landscape architect with a schematic overview and then have an engineer detail the plan. Mr. Rhodes said working with a traffic engineer so they have the right layout. Mr. Rhodes said that the Board is not looking to extinguish the business, but the Board wants something that is safe and notice that the doors are closed and want open them as soon as possible and are trying to enable that and the applicants keeps returning with very small variations with the plans and feels this is the most productive way to go.

Mr. Cwalinski asked the turning radius. Mr. Cate said that the architect did run auto turn on the project and the vehicles did work around this corner.

Ms. Cristy said that there is no reason for the right turn at the cut right at the south corner. Mr. Rhodes said typically what happens in practice that runs margins of lights and what they are concentrating on at the intersection is the light; not the guy making the abrupt turn into a driveway so separating it a little bit from the intersection will maximize safety. Mr. Doyle indicated that the drawing shows 60ft.

Mr. VanVorst said that it is a great idea to have all these businesses, but it does not work on this plan and it is to condensed and needs to be spread out more and needs to be spread out more to meet our design standards and at this point take all the plans throw them out and start over again.

Mr. Rhodes made a motion to table the application. Ms. Cwalinski seconded the motion and all present voted in favor. CARRIED.

Joseph Suhrada, Round Lake Road and Schauber Road for a Major Subdivision. Eric Schmidt of Lansing Engineer was present on behalf of the Sharon Lane Subdivision. Mr. Schmidt said that from the previous meeting that there was a flag lot that was located on the southern end of the site which has been eliminated and all the buildings will constructed at the right-of way with proper width. Mr. Schmidt said most of the comments are with regards to storm water and have presented some ideas to Ms. Serra moving the project forward and depending on what the new regulations is when they are presented to the public and feels that it will work. Mr. Schmidt based the storm water design off of to allow for mitigation of the area around the road and site by site mitigation. Mr. Schmidt said that there are a lot of forest and vegetation on site along with the wetlands and it seems like it has been approached as a Conservation Subdivision and that it has large lots and using the vegetation as filtration for water quality treatment. Mr. Schmidt has brought some of the different standards with regards to vegetative filters one from Maine, New Jersey and Pennsylvania with New Jersey seeming to be the most strict and having done research using not only constructive vegetative filter strips, but existing vegetation as filter strips to treat total suspended solids and nitrogen and other pollutants. Mr. Schmidt said rather than proposing on site individual lot mitigation system instead try to mitigate the volume in one spot or a secondary spot and handle the water quality treatment on site through the existing dense vegetation.

Mr. Rhodes asked the total acres of disturbance. Mr. Schmidt did have an exact number, but had a map that was marked up to show the heavy hatched areas are areas of heavy dense woodlands and the areas in the surrounding the blue with the green hatching on the inside are wetlands areas with dense woodland vegetation. Mr. Schmidt said when visiting the site you can see that it is dense woods, but there are good under growth when looking at vegetative filter strip guidelines they talk about dense vegetation used as a filter strip and its already there. Mr. Rhodes indicated that he will need to know the number of disturbance. Mr. Schmidt said that he did not know. Mr. Rhodes said that it is to determine how much water quality volume is needed. Mr. Rhodes said that you exceed the DEC regulations as well as the proposed town regulations. Mr. Schmidt indicated that the applicant has more than enough water quality volume in the basin. Mr. Rhodes indicated that this is contemporary low impact development to be able to do exactly that; reduce the density, do not oversize your infer structure facility or standards by treating more from the roadway. Mr. Rhodes feels that this is the way to design the site as long as you can treat the total water quality that would be required for the entire project from the road and the sumps and footing drains. Mr. Schmidt said that there will be roadside swales, not a pipe system to collect. Mr. Doyle asked where the pumps will discharge. Mr. Schmidt said into the level spreaders; a device that takes the concentrated flow and turns it into sheet flow. Mr. Schmidt indicated that this will be a private road. Mr. Rhodes said that there will be no way to enforce the storm water management. Ms. Serra said only in the design aspect. Mr. Rhodes said the town will own the enforcement of it. Mr. Rhodes said that the town will want something that will minimize the enforcement action. Mr. Rhodes said that the new MS4 standards are going to require a storm water management officer to enforce storm water devices so the system that is installed is going to be policed by the town which includes the ditches.

Mr. Rhodes asked if there are more than five acres of disturbance. Ms. Serra replied yes, just over. Mr. Rhodes asked including the basin. Ms. Serra said including.

Mr. Cwalinski said back on August 30, 2007 the Board asked the applicant if would agree to no further subdivision. Mr. Rabideau said that the applicant did not agree and does not want this restriction.

Mr. Rhodes said that a water contingency note will need to be placed on map.

Ms. Eddy asked if the road will be paved. Mr. Schmidt replied yes.

Ms. Eddy asked if this subdivision have ramifications at EastLine Road and Round Lake Road. Ms. Serra said that it will be part of the discussion when it is brought to the County that is in the planning process that would utilize this intersection. Ms. Eddy said that BFJ said that there were several options and has and option been chosen from column "A" or column "B" and who will make that decision. Ms. Serra said that CT Male will initiate conversation to speak to the County. Mr. Rhodes also said to include the Town Board. Mr. Rhodes said that the project was tripping 150 plus at peak hours which delays on Round Lake Road and increase the delay by 20 or 40 seconds. The project exceeds 10 vehicles in a peak hour so having 9 houses it is almost a car an hour. Mr. Rhodes said that this project it self does not have a significant of an impact on the intersection nor do they deep enough pockets to upgrade it so the town has to make a decision that were put in front of them about two years ago after the Comprehensive Plan ended there was a town wide traffic study that intersection was studies and there were some recommendations were made and some dollar figures at various amounts were mentioned and was not sure if that was done. Mr. Rhodes said that the recommendation was to formalize it through an EIS and a traffic mitigation fund.

Mr. Reilly said that he would hesitate to grant preliminary approval until the traffic issue is settled. Mr. Reilly also indicated that the storm water management ordinance should be adopted by the Town Board at the next meeting and should be in place and will be the first project under those regulations and first project and already looking at waivers. Ms. Serra said that minor technical waivers would be needed on this project.

Mr. Doyle opened the public hearing 8:47pm

Mr. Doyle closed the public hearing 8:48pm

Mr. Rhodes made a motion to table. Ms. Eddy seconded the motion. CARRIED.

Mr. Doyle opened the public hearing 8:47pm

Mr. Doyle closed the public hearing 8:48pm

No one wished to speak

MOTION: Mr. Cwalinski made a motion to adjourn. Mr. Rhodes seconded the motion.

Meeting adjourned at 8:49pm

Respectfully submitted,

Michelle L. Dingman